Right things have got out of hand with the Sched IMO

what we need to do is leave Andy to finish it
then for everyone to download & look at it
then in a adult orderly manner put over your concerns or opinions on it
then we will decide what way to go with it and as Andy himself has stated Majority rules
just to say i am 100% impartial on this subject
so when its finished can we get as many opinions as possible
i can put together a detailed poll when we are sorted
hope that is ok with everyone

Afternoon all,

I haven't really had much to say about the league in the past couple of seasons, but have been round long enough to know what works and what doesn't.
I can see points from both Andy and Matt, and neither are incorrect with what they are attempting to propose, but it just comes across to me like they are a couple of stubborn old bulls, neither wanting to give up their territory, or admit defeat.

In regards what Andy is proposing, I do like the way the stats are laid out so that we can see them, and whilst there appear are more horses over the shorter distance - what would happen if somebody has specifically been targeting the longer distance races in the build up to the new season (and hasn't been reading this forum) and when it comes to upload the hard work has been for nothing?

I also think the comment about 'breeding shorter distances is easier for the casual player' is one I actually disagree with. It all comes down to what sort of breeding stock you have no matter what distance you are breeding over. In my experience I am much better at breeding horses in excess of 1m4f than sprinters (although this wasn't the case up until SO3), it's just through playing through the years I have learnt techniques which can make me get better horses over the longer distances than the average.

I also think the drop in field sizes towards the back end of the season is down to the handicap ratings in which they are banded in. As the season progresses and horses compete, they will get hiked in the ratings, thus meaning they will need to progress up the levels - it could be worth increasing the handicap bands for these races with a view to getting more entries - especially considering group races are few and far between in comparison to races under 12f.

In regards what Matt is proposing, I can actually see where he is coming from in regards some of his points. I think the longer distances races are an art-form personally, and should be protected and not dropped in favour of those shorter distances races that everyone can breed - see it as more of a 'specialist' distance shall we say?

The whole schedule thing is a tough and difficult process (and having been involved in it before) I know just the job Andy is currently facing in trying to please the masses, it is some undertaking. I do think an element of 'common sense' should be used when mapping out a schedule, and we shouldn't be blinded by statistics. Yes use them as a core of which to build around, but then logic should prevail in what races are needed for each week to make it the most effective all-round.

This isn't attack on either of you so please don't take it the wrong way, but perhaps we should just allow Andy to just continue with what he is doing and then see how it looks once completed.

The continual back and forth between Matt & Andy isn't good for the league, and although it is always good to have healthy debate on subjects we feel passionate about, I personally feel this one has run its course as things have started to get a touch more personal.

If help is required in getting the schedule tweaked to suit the general population, then I am willing to offer a hand to make it work for us all.

And finally Paul, as president of the league I think all conversations had in private should stay that way and I felt that was a bit poor airing your email exchanges with Matt on a public forum like that.

Cheers

Not surprisingly I agree with all of what Duke said.

And as Leon said I wont be entering the flat next season.

I won't be entering the flat as I target staying races and I also agree with the Duke's statements.

The league should cater to all distances and all types of breeders and it seems this has been thrown out the window.

As a result I will only have NH horses next season

The problem with debating Schedules is the passionate trainers I.e Matt,Andy,Doc,Paul,Myself NH , and Leon the only other person that as said anything is GHost and yet no one knows what it's going to be like for me to side with Andy or Matt I need to see the Actual Schedule.

But when it comes to picking horse's for the league I don't breed for certain distances and I think most trainer's are like me I will breed a 1m 4f with a 7f horse and get what I get from the breeding them together so to say that New Trainers breed for shorter Distance's to a mile and half for the league imo is wrong Andy and Paul with his miler's may breed for certain distance's but I don't think most people would or you might aswell have a league designed up to 1mile 6f and forget anything over that distance.

And I hope joe's comment with the Ascot Gold Cup was tongue in cheek the jewel of Royal Ascot should never be Scrapped But there are 30 races a week there should be enough room for 2m + handicaps everyweek of the league if not two .

Gray

prob not my finest hour & to be honest it was totally out of order & i apologise for that
but also to be honest all his pointless back and forward bickering just really gets to me
it really annoys the heck out of me when someone is trying there best putting in time to something & get shot down b4 he is even
finished.

To be perfectly honest i think its time for a new president for the flat
(i am very happy to continue helping out i just don't think i am the right person)
at times this has stressed me greatly & i am supposed to avoid stress
so i think this is the right time for someone to take over someone stronger who can keep everyone happy
i have enjoyed doing it at times and at times its been very tough
i apologise if anyone feels i am letting them down but have to put my health and myself first
I hope Matt will put himself forward because i genuinely think he would be good at it

Its ok Paul, its only the internet. Dont feel bad about it. My emails were worse.

The President is an impossible job. I have shown once again why I am not the ideal candidate for it. Plus at some point next year I wont be here for 2-3 months again so thats no good.

The trouble is that you cant just see the good in every idea or everyone. Sometimes ideas need to be stopped before they've even started. Rich had numerous times where that happened, even ended in you know who attacking him from different usernames even though it was the same person. Thats the sort of crap you have to put up with. Rich stopped a lot of stuff before it happened or said ok some of the ideas are good but overall it needs some adjustments. But it shouldn't be like that now. I genuinely thought we had a group to discuss ideas and listen to everyone. From Champion trainers like me all the way down to those who didn't manage a win this season. But for me this schedule is not that. It has not taken on board the discussion during the season or listened to trainers with experience of both playing and running the league. Im sorry but that cant be a good idea.

That why i wont be entering the flat this season. Sadly I can see a few more coming to the same conclusion. I wish you all the best and will now try to steer clear of the flat on the forum. I probably have been too negative but I felt so strongly about this, just as Leon did. I had actually set myself a challenge of winning multiple handicaps next season, legally with runs in maidens and handicaps along the way, but I wont be bothering now.

Take care and good luck.

No hard feelings Matt we prob just rubbed each other up the wrong way

but i am being genuine when i say i have found this to be very stressful
and its time for me to take a back step b4 it affects my health i don't really want to go into that

i would like to thank Leon and the team its been an absolute pleasure working with you guys i have got on with you all
incredibly well you are a great bunch of decent people

i just hope you understand were i am coming from & hope you don't feel let down i am sorry if you do

Paul don't let things get to you do your job the schedule is not your problem its Andy's please stay and be the flat president don't let things get to you it's only a debate about the future of the flat schedule its not life or death you have done a brilliant job and I like working with you.

Gray

i think thats probably my problem gray i do take things to heart &
do let things get on top of me and to be honest it really has
at times this is impossible
thanks for the kind words Gray have enjoyed working with you

Come on peeps, everyone needs to take a step back before it gets out of hand.

THIS IS SUPPOSE TO BE FUN FOR ALL. And no i'm not shouting

Why not just put a extra race on each week and alternate each week between a sprint/mile h'cap race and a long distance race 1m6+. As Del would say everyone's a winner .

IMO scrapping the long distance races would be a mistake, it gives people who target these races or have done historically like me and I'm pretty sure Leon and a few others have in the past something to shoot at. Maybe if I hadn't won and placed in the Gold Cup I wouldn't still be here interested in the league as those races were the only ones I could really compete in as I don't have the hours to put in especially when some people can put 5+ hours a day into breeding 5f-1m4f horses, me e.g. on 5 hours a week game time just cannot compete at those distances. I think having one 3yo 2m+ race and 1/2 2m+ 4yo up a week is more than enough in a 30 race week etc along with maybe adding an extra one in for h'cappers when the big races Gold/Cadran/Doncaster/Melbourne Cup are on.

Paul you have put so much into this forum/league since from beyond my memory and honestly we've lost way too many characters and hardworkers due to politics already so please take your time in any decision you make.

Who said anything about scrapping long distance races? I think Andy is thinking about cutting only 3 or 4 races, then the schedule will be looked at and can be changed if the majority are not happy. People quitting the flat league for no reason is a huge overreaction to nothing. Andy offered to put the time into do the schedule and I trust him to make a good job of it. A lot of the staying races last season had fields of 3-6 runners, cutting a few races could make it more competitive and the lowest rated horses will still always have small field 0-80 races to win at every distance regardless.

There is a disproportionate amount of 2m+ races to the number of horses uploaded for those distances.

The only races im interested in are the 1m to 1m4 Group 1s which will not be effected so dont think im agreeing with Andys ideas because I dont have stayers, this decision doesnt effect me, I just think its common sense when looking at the numbers.

Hadn't looked through the whole argument as I couldn't be arsed that was just the vibe I got from it! I agree with that Joe, just about finding the right balance really which is never going to please everyone. As I said 2/3 a week is more than enough and perfect within a 25/30 race week, lets see what Andy comes up with and go from there.