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New Flat Handicapper
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Author:  simpleminds [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  New Flat Handicapper
I am your new flat handicapper and I am Mean :twisted: don't try and pull the wool over my eyes someone's got to do it and I am willing to give it a go I know its a bit frustrating waiting to enter horse's and waiting for the handicap marks to be done before entering horse for the coming week.

I would like you to be patient final results wont be let out until Wednesday so that is the earliest the Handicap marks can be done I don't know how Joe worked out from the start but I am looking at around a Mark of 100 for a maiden race win this I feel will be the same for a listed win in week 1 only this is to make sure that a trainer might put his/her better horse in a maiden rather than a listed race.

Gray

Any feedback are most welcomed
Author:  follis86 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
Good luck Gray, I'm sure you'll be good at it

Who is doing the jumps?
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
Good Luck Gray i am sure you will do a fine job
bring your tin hat though even if jesus or god was the handicapper they would still
get plenty of flack
its a thankless task a no win situation but you doing it will be far superior to the game doing it

i hope people will give you a chance to find your feet and not jump all over your decisions
best wishes with it and good luck

1 question that remains unanswered

how many runs needed b4 be allowed to enter final g1 handicaps
if its 1 leaves the door open for ungentlemanly conduct or chancy dealings
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
think leon looks after jumps
Author:  ghostzapper74 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
Hi New H'capper :D

I'm just a little welsh trainer from hills of south wales, my horses are more pitt ponies than thoroughbreds. :wink:

I think any horses that wins a opening day maiden should be rated 110, well u going to need to be top class to win one.
Author:  ghostzapper74 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
I just went and had a look back at last years week one races and the first 2 winners were

Symposium who was rated 116 at the end of the year and Chariot who was rated 117 by the end of the year.
Author:  simpleminds [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
follis86 wrote:
Good luck Gray, I'm sure you'll be good at it

Who is doing the jumps?




The jumps don't need a Handicapper the c/k is good with the jumps handicapping system just dont run your Pit ponies in graded races then your handicap should be fine graded races like Group races on the flat should be used for good horse's.
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
Good Luck Gray i am sure you will do a fine job

bring your tin hat though even if jesus or god was the handicapper they would still
get plenty of flack
its a thankless task a no win situation but you doing it will be far superior to the game doing it

i hope people will give you a chance to find your feet and not jump all over your decisions
best wishes with it and good luck

1 question that remains unanswered

how many runs needed b4 be allowed to enter final g1 handicaps
if its 1 leaves the door open for ungentlemanly conduct or chancy dealings


I am looking at three races at least to qualify for the Finals in Week 13.
Author:  simpleminds [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
ghostzapper74 wrote:
Hi New H'capper :D

I'm just a little welsh trainer from hills of south wales, my horses are more pitt ponies than thoroughbreds. :wink:

I think any horses that wins a opening day maiden should be rated 110, well u going to need to be top class to win one.


110 maybe a bit stiff it could of been a bad maiden not a big field and I cant be biased to anyone say a Paul Rhodes Maiden winner should be higher rated than G Clutterbuck maiden winner (This wont never happen)
Author:  ghostzapper74 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
I am looking at three races at least to qualify for the Finals in Week 13.


I'm glad of that because it makes them more interesting and gives the middle of the road trainers a chance to win a big one.
Author:  keithbeaky [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
100 is too low for winning any maiden, though this years horses might not be as good as last season. You cant have horses finishing second in a top class maiden rated 95 though.

2yo's should always be rated lower than 3 or 4yo's.

It will have to be one run for a G1 handicap as there aren't enough races to make it three. So yes watch out for more ungentlemanly conduct from me.

You might leave the horse that finishes midfield on 75 and then rate those ahead higher and higher until reaching the winner and then lower and lower on the way towards those that finish out the back. But its not an exact science.

If the race is truly run then it is easier to rate.
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
keithbeaky wrote:

It will have to be one run for a G1 handicap as there aren't enough races to make it three. So yes watch out for more ungentlemanly conduct from me.


you are the one that said this should not be allowed anymore
i would personally not be happy with 1 run & in rule
its just does not sit easy with me
as you have proved that the g1 handicaps can be manipulated
these were invented by me to give others lower level trainers a chance of a g1 victory you have plenty of G1 quality horses
to be honest seeing you do this again would leave a very sour taste in my mouth
i don't want to start any rows and give Leon any headaches he has had plenty of them
but i really feel this needs sorting now
for someone who clearly stated they were never entering again i take anything you say with a large pinch of salt
i await Leon or Jamies decision on the g1 handicaps
think this needs carefully considering but if they say 1 then they are the bosses but as stated
it leaves the door open for unfair play only IMO
Author:  keithbeaky [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
I only put a few horses in because my Friday night was cancelled. Id you'd like to show me how I can get three runs into my Melbourne Cup and Sydney Cup horses then please do.

The schedule is lacking in handicaps. So forcing trainers to run in three races is going to be hard, especially at certain distances. I am actually trying to balance the schedule out now.

Yes it was me that said it should be more runs to qualify, but how can you enforce a rule that might not be possible at some distances?


How many runs did Acca Pulco have last season? Ama Seeing could have run twice more and still got beat as well.
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
keithbeaky wrote:
I only put a few horses in because my Friday night was cancelled. Id you'd like to show me how I can get three runs into my Melbourne Cup and Sydney Cup horses then please do.

The schedule is lacking in handicaps. So forcing trainers to run in three races is going to be hard, especially at certain distances. I am actually trying to balance the schedule out now.

Yes it was me that said it should be more runs to qualify, but how can you enforce a rule that might not be possible at some distances?


How many runs did Acca Pulco have last season? Ama Seeing could have run twice more and still got beat as well.


plenty of group races over 2 miles - 2m4
but then you would not be staying on the side of the handicap mark running in group races
my horses in g1 handicaps had loads of races versions of the truth had 8 or 9 runs still won the sydney cup
so it can be done just means you don't have a very low mark
or 1 run and get 80 rated so no weight in the final
Author:  keithbeaky [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
So a 90 horse should be forced to run in Group races to get a mark?

As always you see me as the problem. The problem last season was the rules. This season it is the schedule. I wont be bothering to look at it anymore. You can do it.
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Flat Hadicapper
keithbeaky wrote:
So a 90 horse should be forced to run in Group races to get a mark?

As always you see me as the problem. The problem last season was the rules. This season it is the schedule. I wont be bothering to look at it anymore. You can do it.


id rather see that then see someone stick a horse in a maiden with race handy instructions & run adveragly
then gets a featherweight in final and crushes the field

how is that right and fair or a good advertisement for the lge

for me not fair on the lower level casual playing trainers
but then again i like to put others b4 my own wants and needs

i would love to see a newby win the melbourne cup with a horse that is incapable of winning a fully fledged g1


but i am no longer involved in the running of things so i bow to Leon or Jamies judgement
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