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| Breeding SO6 http://startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9561 |
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| Author: | keithbeaky [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Breeding SO6 |
I think we should discuss breeding for the league and formulate some ideas. I would still like to enter, the league has mostly been good fun. I dont have the time I used to have and if the breeding was the same as it was in SO4 and SO5 then I doubt id enter. Yes you've all heard that one before, but I didn't actually enter the last league at all because it is way too time consuming and boring to stay competitive! And even if people are prepared to do it all over again we now have the huge and potentially unsolvable problem of hexing. So I think most have seen the idea I've put forward, I've tried to explain it a bit more here. Badly i admit as im busy with the real racing Breeding in SO4 and SO5 was very unrealistic. It needs to reflect the breeding of race horses from the real world more. Over the years certain sires have bred more stakes/group winners than others; Sadlers Wells and Danehill were two of the best for a long time. More recently we have had Montjeu and Galileo. But they dont produce G1 horses every single time they are paired with a mare and every now and then you get a Cockney Rebel or Canford Cliffs from an unfashionable pairing. This should be how it is in SO6. So yes it is more likely that a Galileo x Ouija Board foal is going to be better than two parents which were handicappers at best, but they shouldn't produce a superstar every single time and maybe every 1 in 100,000 breeds an average pairing should produce a group horse. If people want to carry on breeding as it is then good luck to you. It has very little realism, if any at all, takes up way too much time and those who put in the most time or devise the best methods(including creating schedules to get all the best game horses) end up with the best horses. Im not saying there sholdn't be a reward for being intelligent or creative but it would also be nice for a trainer to breed about 50 horses and one of them be capable of winning a group race. It would also be nice to make breeding as fair as possible for everyone. Those who put in the time are still more likely to have a stable of group horses as they will have bred more horses, but it would be great to have one of the smaller trainers win or go close in a G1 or top 2yo race. These are just ideas. Whether you could then breed from the horses you have created I dont know, that needs to be discussed. |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
Well put together Matt i like the idea of online breeding A Few Additions to your idea 1) We come up with a list of 100 sires and we between us come up with the stud fee for each so we value them 2) We Come with a list 250 mares we between us then value the Leasing Fee for the Mare Example A Galileo (£250,000) x Zenyatta (£250,000) Total Crossing Fee £500,000 Example B Canford Cliffs (£40,000) x Homecoming Queen (£10,000) Total Crossing Fee £50,000 Example C Top Notch Tonto (£5,000) x Big Break (£5,000) Total Crossing Fee £10,000 3) You then get a Budget were you have to breed 20 flat horses and 30 jumps horses (someone could blow most of their budget on 5 horses and be left with 45 handicappers or some could distribute there budget evenly or some could have 10 strong pairings and 40 adverage pairings ) Basicly every Trainer has the same conditions and as Matt has said having variables in partnerships should also come into it so what some would think to be an odd partnership with average pairing can produce a superstar and the other way 2 2 superstars producing a dud It would mean people can just play SO6 for fun I think deciding how to split your budget and managing your pairings would be fabulous It would take little time to organize (For the trainer not sure what it would Mean for Mark) he could use the already made legends |
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| Author: | ghostzapper74 [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
pjrhodes1970 wrote: Well put together Matt i like the idea of online breeding A Few Additions to your idea 1) We come up with a list of 100 sires and we between us come up with the stud fee for each so we value them 2) We Come with a list 250 mares we between us then value the Leasing Fee for the Mare Example A Galileo (£250,000) x Zenyatta (£250,000) Total Crossing Fee £500,000 Example B Canford Cliffs (£40,000) x Homecoming Queen (£10,000) Total Crossing Fee £50,000 Example C Top Notch Tonto (£5,000) x Big Break (£5,000) Total Crossing Fee £10,000 3) You then get a Budget were you have to breed 20 flat horses and 30 jumps horses (someone could blow most of their budget on 5 horses and be left with 45 handicappers or some could distribute there budget evenly or some could have 10 strong pairings and 40 adverage pairings ) Basicly every Trainer has the same conditions and as Matt has said having variables in partnerships should also come into it so what some would think to be an odd partnership with average pairing can produce a superstar and the other way 2 2 superstars producing a dud It would mean people can just play SO6 for fun I think deciding how to split your budget and managing your pairings would be fabulous It would take little time to organize (For the trainer not sure what it would Mean for Mark) he could use the already made legends I like that idea, then it's the same for everyone. I don't like the idea of just having a open online breeding, I know I don't want to get into another Rat Race. If it's a bun fight then I don't think I would enter. I think before people come up with ideas we need to know from Mark what he can do |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
If People are Interested i could come up with a list of Sires and Mares & Values Would take alot of work but could do it in a few hours & Dont worry would only be a few Coolmore in there and only there as a guide it would have to be talked over and we would have to see if Mark is interested or even if its possible |
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| Author: | ghostzapper74 [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
pjrhodes1970 wrote: If People are Interested i could come up with a list of Sires and Mares & Values Would take alot of work but could do it in a few hours & Dont worry would only be a few Coolmore in there and only there as a guide it would have to be talked over and we would have to see if Mark is interested or even if its possible IF this is possible then why not have the horses made up of the horses we bred ourselves, lets say everyone could put in one or two horses into the pool so this game we playing now could mean something. Everyone could play the game at their pace but still get two horses into the pool. Then every horse would have form to rate them and even if someone didn't bred anything they would still get the same chance when they come to breeding. That way u incorporate this game with a online league. |
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| Author: | blazingbailey [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
As I mentioned in the other thread though, once someone has worked out which sires/mares/crosses have a statistical advantage they breed from those only and eventually everyone would either cotton on and start from very similar pairings or be left behind. I like the principal of the idea mind you just not sure how practical it will be. One thing that will have to be addressed out of this is how easy it currently is to win a G1/2. Like the OP says top horses don't produce group winners every time but currently they can. Even my worst horses are capable of winning decent enough Group races which shouldn't be possible but again that comes down to the stats which don't mean an awful lot. |
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| Author: | blazingbailey [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
If we want to make breeding relatively straight forward and for it to also follow some form of logic, I think SO will have to go down the FM route and make the stats meaningful and important. If you dont know how FM work, each player basically has a potential ability (PA)of up to 200 and also a current ability (CA) of up to 200 whereby current ability cant ever exceed potential ability. Current ability increases as the player gets older, gets more exposure to first team football, and gets trained to enhance certain stats. The PA/CA figures are calculated based on the players mental, physical and technical attributes (along with position and other psychological elements) which are rated between 1 and 20 and most of these are shown on the player profile (or horse profile as it would be in this case). The way the stats work is that if you had a player who was perfect physically, it still wouldnt mean an awful lot if he didnt have the mental or technical attributes to be able to spot a pass and then execute that pass. In horse racing terms, a horse with perfect speed doesnt mean he will win every race if he blows the start or pulls to hard in every race etc. The best players in FM have the best balance of stats combined with a high PA and CA for the position they play in or what I would guess would probably be distance of race in this instance. I presume that this is probably the path that the SO series was heading down by the introduction of the stats bars in SO5 but unfortunately it hasnt really worked but IMO its the only way the game can eventually move forward. Yes it would make things more complicated but only for those who wanted it to be complicated and wanted to go into such detail and it would still allow casual players the opportunity to breed a good horse fairly quickly and at the very least understand why the horse hasnt lived up to expectation and the potential ways they can get around it. It doesnt need to go into anywhere near as much depth as FM does, but it would be important to make sure whatever stats are shown do affect the horses performance. Even little things like horses with high acceleration but lower cruising speed being suited to hold up tactics or having jockeys that could specialise on 2 year olds helping the maturing process allowing them gain CA if they run well up to certain point, or being able to affect how their CA increases by either not running them enough or too much depending on the condition and conformation of the horse. In further additions that could then also bring the potential to improve how the training side of the game is played with potentially hiring staff to bring other benefits to the stable. Annoying things like where you get a horse in between distances could be trained out by focusing on speed or stamina etc. Where breeding is concerned, it would be important to know the family histories because if you knew a certain family had shown a trait that you would want bred into a few of your lines then you could try and do that with the gamebreds. If you keep coming up against a GB that battles on to the line and a few of your horses are a little weak at the finish, you could introduce some of those traits into your lines and hope that you end up getting the benefits of both the matings and not the worst bits which could happen and does so in real life. I think it would probably be possible to have hidden stats like the percentage chances of producing offspring with equal or higher PA so that in some cases in may be 1 in 4 or 1 in 1000 etc. I dont even know how possible it would be to use this approach in this game and I can imagine it would take a lot more man hours than previous versions but I think that if the game really does want to grow and develop I think that this would probably be the best way forward. |
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| Author: | keithbeaky [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
blazingbailey wrote: As I mentioned in the other thread though, once someone has worked out which sires/mares/crosses have a statistical advantage they breed from those only and eventually everyone would either cotton on and start from very similar pairings or be left behind. I like the principal of the idea mind you just not sure how practical it will be. One thing that will have to be addressed out of this is how easy it currently is to win a G1/2. Like the OP says top horses don't produce group winners every time but currently they can. Even my worst horses are capable of winning decent enough Group races which shouldn't be possible but again that comes down to the stats which don't mean an awful lot. Yeah as i said this wouldn't be the way to go. There would be x amount of stallions and x amount of mares. Some stallions would be better than others, in that they are more likely to produce group/graded horses, but they would not produce group horses every single time and they would produce a G1 horse 1 in every 1000 breeds. That number can be changed, for now it is just an example. You seem to think I want breeding to be an exact science when I want the complete opposite. I want breeding to be similar to real life whilst at the same time i DONT want the same trainers having all the best horses, which is what does normally happen in real life. The idea of having money to breed with or limiting the amount of horses you can breed for every league season would hopefully help too. This again would reflect real life more. Ok so some owners can buy almost any horse in training or pay the highest stud fees going but they dont breed infinite amount of horses like we currently do in SO4 or SO5. I want realism, not statistical advantages. Paul has an example using breeding funds above. After you have bred your horses from an online central breeding pool I think it would be good and possibly needed that you could then breed your new horses together. Anyway its probably all pie in the sky anyway. |
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| Author: | Mikey1892 [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breeding SO6 |
Kinda off subject but the thing thats mostly put me off playing in the league is the need to trial horses in the CK if Mark can somehow manage to replicate in game play into league play then if probably join. As with breeding a lot that doesn't bother me, but copying ttf files and having 10 games on the go to try and improve lines is just too time consuming to get involved. People who go to the effort deserve to do well but I think you have to find a balance. |
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