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exxplozion wrote:

I too thought this Duke, but, I had 2 fantastic horses in the breeding barn..multiple group 1 winners..I decided to breed them together and there produced a horse who's colour, distance etc were the same as the fathers...I raced the young colt in listed races...which he won...but when I race him at group level he always runs poorly, can this just be a one-off or can it happen again, do I breed with the same 2 greats or not? It's a funny game.

The Duke wrote:

exxplozion wrote:

It can happen again, but I'm certain if you breed the two together again you'll get one top class, I find it's usually the second or third mating between the chosen pair that provides the best results.

blazingbailey wrote:

This is a potentially interesting thread, shame I havent seen it before...

Like comments on here already, I think it is a bit random (which in itself isnt unrealistic) but from my experience I have noticed a couple of things.

1 - Stallions tend to produce their best produce in the first 3 years at stud and they tend to be more consistent. ie if they cover 5, 3 of them could potentially be very good, where as when they are older 1 of them might.

2 - The older the mare gets the worse the foals get. I have tried up to around 15yo mares and the resultant foal has been crap. I think I have produced one quality horse from a 10yo mare before but thats as high as I have been.

3 - More recently I have noticed a common ancestor in some of my best horses recent pedigree. This is generally what happens IRL so would be quite a nice touch if there is something in it. From recollection, I think that of the last of my 8 mutiple G1 winning horses (with quick times), 6 if not 7 had a common ancestor as a granddam/sire. I do have some less good ones with this method but the majority are of a good calibre. It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried to breed from an unraced 2yo that had a good 'family' and resulted in good offspring, or bred from an average mare with a good 'family' and had any good results. I might try that tonight!

I repeat these are only things I have noticed and are in no way factual. I will keep looking into it though and see what else I can find, as after all it is a game and there will surely be some logic applied in there somewhere!

Author:	OnTheNose [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	A Breeding Formula?
When looking to pair up in the breeding barn, where do the qualities of foal come from? I.E, does the stamina come from the Mare or Stallion, same with the speed and acceleration? I'm experimenting right now because I have not even bothered to look into it in detail before.

Author:	The Duke [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
It's pretty much random from what I can tell, and I've had years upon years of breeding experience throughout the Starters Orders series. I've noticed the offspring either takes on the sire/dam abilities and gradually adds to them (providing they are any good). I've been able to tell this through a few experiments with different colour horses, those that took the same colour of their mother (she had an electric turn of foot) had a similar trait, whereas those which came out the same colour as the father 'bay' were stamina laden with a gradual increase in speed. I guess it's just finding the right mix and gradually increasing the value of the bloodline through getting the right breaks in the breeding shed.

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
I always stuck to the basics bred a g1 winning miler stallion with a g1 winning miler mare. But recently have turned into a mad professor like the doc out of back to the future messed my hair up got the test tubes out and experimented bred a 5f horse with a 2miler bred a miler with a mile4 horse Bred a 6f horse with a 1m6f horse and so on Results were mixed some bad I mean very bad!! Too bad to be true But the moral to this story is that I found my quickest 1mile 1mile2f 1mile4f in ck by complete mix breeding e.g. 6f x 1m2f = quickest trialling miler but you do have to go through alot of rubbish to find that gem but mix breeding does pay off my best result was aqua marina 1m6f x contraband 1m2f they produced a quality mile 4 horse

Author:	exxplozion [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
I too thought this Duke, but, I had 2 fantastic horses in the breeding barn..multiple group 1 winners..I decided to breed them together and there produced a horse who's colour, distance etc were the same as the fathers...I raced the young colt in listed races...which he won...but when I race him at group level he always runs poorly, can this just be a one-off or can it happen again, do I breed with the same 2 greats or not? It's a funny game.

Author:	The Duke [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
exxplozion wrote: I too thought this Duke, but, I had 2 fantastic horses in the breeding barn..multiple group 1 winners..I decided to breed them together and there produced a horse who's colour, distance etc were the same as the fathers...I raced the young colt in listed races...which he won...but when I race him at group level he always runs poorly, can this just be a one-off or can it happen again, do I breed with the same 2 greats or not? It's a funny game. It can happen again, but I'm certain if you breed the two together again you'll get one top class, I find it's usually the second or third mating between the chosen pair that provides the best results.

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A Breeding Formula? http://startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5663	Page 1 of 2

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
The Duke wrote: exxplozion wrote: I too thought this Duke, but, I had 2 fantastic horses in the breeding barn..multiple group 1 winners..I decided to breed them together and there produced a horse who's colour, distance etc were the same as the fathers...I raced the young colt in listed races...which he won...but when I race him at group level he always runs poorly, can this just be a one-off or can it happen again, do I breed with the same 2 greats or not? It's a funny game. It can happen again, but I'm certain if you breed the two together again you'll get one top class, I find it's usually the second or third mating between the chosen pair that provides the best results. first year crop are usually poor but after that they get beter and beter

Author:	OnTheNose [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
I got this nice little horse when I put a 7f Stallion Group winner with a 2m Group winning Mare!

Author:	exxplozion [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
Cheers guys for that info, I will keep trying with the loving couple Just one more question: Is it possible that you can have poor horses from 2 multiple Group 1 winners in your barn for the life of the mare and stallion?

Author:	blazingbailey [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
This is a potentially interesting thread, shame I havent seen it before... Like comments on here already, I think it is a bit random (which in itself isnt unrealistic) but from my experience I have noticed a couple of things. 1 - Stallions tend to produce their best produce in the first 3 years at stud and they tend to be more consistent. ie if they cover 5, 3 of them could potentially be very good, where as when they are older 1 of them might. 2 - The older the mare gets the worse the foals get. I have tried up to around 15yo mares and the resultant foal has been crap. I think I have produced one quality horse from a 10yo mare before but thats as high as I have been. 3 - More recently I have noticed a common ancestor in some of my best horses recent pedigree. This is generally what happens IRL so would be quite a nice touch if there is something in it. From recollection, I think that of the last of my 8 mutiple G1 winning horses (with quick times), 6 if not 7 had a common ancestor as a granddam/sire. I do have some less good ones with this method but the majority are of a good calibre. It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried to breed from an unraced 2yo that had a good 'family' and resulted in good offspring, or bred from an average mare with a good 'family' and had any good results. I might try that tonight! I repeat these are only things I have noticed and are in no way factual. I will keep looking into it though and see what else I can find, as after all it is a game and there will surely be some logic applied in there somewhere!

Author:	OnTheNose [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
blazingbailey wrote: This is a potentially interesting thread, shame I havent seen it before... Like comments on here already, I think it is a bit random (which in itself isnt unrealistic) but from my experience I have noticed a couple of things. 1 - Stallions tend to produce their best produce in the first 3 years at stud and they tend to be more consistent. ie if they cover 5, 3 of them could potentially be very good, where as when they are older 1 of them might. 2 - The older the mare gets the worse the foals get. I have tried up to around 15yo mares and the resultant foal has been crap. I think I have produced one quality horse from a 10yo mare before but thats as high as I have been. 3 - More recently I have noticed a common ancestor in some of my best horses recent pedigree. This is generally what happens IRL so would be quite a nice touch if there is something in it. From recollection, I think that of the last of my 8 mutiple G1 winning horses (with quick times), 6 if not 7 had a common ancestor as a granddam/sire. I do have some less good ones with this method but the majority are of a good calibre. It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried to breed from an unraced 2yo that had a good 'family' and resulted in good offspring, or bred from an average mare with a good 'family' and had any good results. I might try that tonight! I repeat these are only things I have noticed and are in no way factual. I will keep looking into it though and see what else I can find, as after all it is a game and there will surely be some logic applied in there somewhere! Looking back, I have also noticed a successful ancestor in my top horses bloodline(by successful I mean at least 5/6 G1 wins). My first Derby winner came from a Breeders Cup Turf winning Stallion. Unfortunately, I have had the game going so long that I didn't realise this until the old boy turned 17! Now his offspring is producing a few G1 winners thankfully.

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
i sold this at 2yo BIG MISTAKE!

Author:	OnTheNose [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
Ouch! That has happened so often to me, sold off what I think are donkey's only for them to come come back and bite me on the 'arris in the big races years later!

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
this horse stank at 2 anyone would have ditched it it had a habbit of trotting in last every time jockey said struggled in class so just gave up i have sold loads of decent ones but 34G1 and still winning them

Author:	OnTheNose [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
Just make sure you catch her in the breeding barn!

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Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A Breeding Formula?
she will prob race til 17 and win 150 g1's just to prove me wrong god she has a long memory