Strategic Designs Ltd., forums :: View topic - Sprinters Savegame

akhc wrote:

Congrats on your recent advances in your times. 1/2 sec is quite an achievement. I wish I could cut half a sec off my times

.

Always CK. The game races are too variable. Condition of the track and wind all play a part. It's too hard to compare which horses are faster even on the same course due to varying conditions. CK is a lot more constant. With going set to good you only have to worry about wind conditions and if you run enough races you can minimize the wind factor too. The question is how to test so you're finding the best of the best. Scatters posted a CK testing guide which is very good though complicated as he runs multiple copies of horses. I've got a different (simpler) system for testing but I suspect it's valid given that I see times falling through generations of breeding.

It's interesting you mention breeding to horses with a top pedigree. A recurrent theme looking back at folk who have posted about breeding is the concept of the super horse (or maybe it's something I've misread) but it seems to be that there are certain horses (stallions) that improve your lines and it's a question about finding/breeding one of those and then just breeding the hell out of it. Whilst I'm not sure I believe that, there are certain horses that crop up more regularly in my lines i.e. inbred across generations. Lasla Laanr A (which I posted about above) is a good example. Whilst there are lots of horses that went into the mix to create my lines they might only have been bred once whereas Punkin was bred at least 6 times (and probably mroe) to various horses that resulted in Lasla Laanr A.

Author:	akhc [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Getting bored with waiting for the league to start and have always wanted to give something back to the community as it was reading the forums and also downloading Thunder's save games that really showed me something about breeding. Not uploading my horses for the league obviously but I've seen a few threads about how hard people find breeding sprinters. So here's a save game which I've started from scratch where I found a good sprinting stallion (5f - pic below) that I ran for a season and then retired to breeding barn where I bred with 3 game horses. Many reloads and advances later have led to 3 offspring (all are 5f horses). The game is saved at the start of the two year old season and the horses are unnamed. The two fillies are good enough to win multiple Group 1 races (pic of best of the three below). The colt may win a few weak Group 1s but will struggle at the highest level. He may prove to be a good sire though I haven't run the game far enough to know. The game is on easy with simple training and uses the default flat schedule as that should be the least hassle to run but of course you can always export at the end of the 2 yr old season and import to another game. http://www.sendspace.com/file/3886b5 If you do download the files, please consider uploading offspring you have bred back to this thread for others to download or if not then at least screenshots of what sprinters you have bred from them. If there is a positive response I might do some other savegames at various distances. I hope these horses can help some establish sprinting lines and playing around with them may well bring some insight into how to breed sprinters . See here for another save game for a colt bred from the filly above viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7391&p=72901#p72901

Author:	akhc [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
So anyone tried these files yet? Been playing around with this game a little. Found out that the best filly of the 3 above (which I called Forever Fab) is good enough to sweep all the races she raced as a two year old. Raced her through half a season as a 3 year old and she was undefeated so not too shabby for a horse bred from two game horses. I then bred her to another stallion I have called Punkin and got a colt I called Punks Maybe Fab (lineage and 2 year old record below) as well as showing Punkin's race record. Here's Punks Maybe Fab at the start of it's 4 year old season (going straight to breeding barn). And here's Punks Maybe Fab's performance in CK Trials (as well as Forever Fab's). As you can see Forever Fab clocks 58.9s for 5f which is really her best time I've ever seen her clock. Punks clocks 58.6 which is par for him - usually 58.6-58.8. I think this illustrates how quick you can get a reasonable horse for the league. As a baseline I've used some horses I was breeding for the league. Lasla Laanr A ran in the SO5 trials and has a fastest time at 5f of 58.4. For comparison here's the lineage for Lasla Laanr A. Note Laspu Punla A crops up in the lineage and I also include the lineage for Laspu Punla A I won't bother posting the lineage going back but believe me when I say there's probably 12-15 generations of breeding that led to Lasla Laanr A. Contrast that with 2 generations for Punks and an advantage of .2s that Lasla Laanr A has for all those additional generations of breeding. Bottom line? I don't believe you need to sink hours and generations into the game. With the right horses you could hit 58.2s at 5f in much less than 12 generations of breeding. How quickly I don't know but the results from this little experiment so far aren't too shabby. Of course it's trying to find the right horses and the sharp eyed will noticed Punkin in the lineage for Laspu Punla A. Actually looking at that lineage chart anytime you see Pun/Pu it means Punkin is somewhere in that horses lineage. Bottom line Punkin is one of my mainstay stallions for 5f which says something about how breeding works in this game maybe.

Author:	keithbeaky [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
I have found 3 stallions that have improved my horses so much in one line of breeding. But their offspring dont produce better horses.

Author:	akhc [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
keithbeaky wrote: I have found 3 stallions that have improved my horses so much in one line of breeding. But their offspring dont produce better horses. You make a good point and in a way Lasla Laanr A is an offspring of Laspu Punla A who doesn't show improvement I think there is much truth in what others have posted before. Sometimes you hit a dead end and you find horses don't improve any further and in my last post you could argue that Laspu Punla A had only some 8-10 generations of breeding and had since stagnated. But the truth is a little more complicated. Here's the lineage for Lasla Raila G who is consistently just a little faster than Punla A. Whilst Laanr A didn't match Punla A. It's offspring colt Lasla E was on par in CK at 5f and Raila G was a result of a cross with another line of mostly 1m horses that were posting some pretty fast 5f times - not quite clocking 58.2 but these milers were running as fast as 58.4 whilst also doing pretty fast mile times hence my decision to breed them with the sprinters. Nothing like experience to tell you how a game works and when you have lots of very good trainers posting about the need to infuse new blood to freshen lines up then there must be some truth there. The question is where that blood comes from and I guess you have to experiment to find out what works. I know that there are lots of other combinations where I've bred lines in which have failed and simply not used those horses for breeding further. It's all down to CK testing and breeding the best with each other. Just a question though. How many horses do you have in your lines at any one distance. E.g. just looking at the lineages in my horses I recognise 15/16 different game horses whose "DNA" is in the "genes" of Raila G. Do folk use more horses? Less? It would be interesting to see what the fastest time at 5f for various trainers versus how many different game horses have gone into the mix which resulted in that horse but I don't know if people would be that open . I get the feeling folk are keeping things under wraps until the league starts.

Author:	akhc [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Just a second post to prove it doesn't take lots of breeding to get reasonably quick times in CK (at least at 5f) 2 generations into breeding like Punks Maybe Fab. And he runs even faster than Punks at 58.4s.

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Author:	EternalFalbrav [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Nice work.

Author:	exxplozion [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Shouldn't all the ratings be 75 for CK?

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
only if you reset them i never do

Author:	exxplozion [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
pjrhodes1970 wrote: only if you reset them i never do Ok cheers Paul.

Author:	akhc [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Still bored waiting for the league to start and bored of breeding for the league. The experiment above made me wonder if I shouldn't try breeding a whole new line of champs so here's my new start. Some may remember I posted this gamebred a little while back. I've never felt I did it enough justice in breeding a line of champs so what better time than now. Here's his great-grandson This 3rd generation of horses aren't running spectacular times in CK at 1m. Mostly 1:39.8- 1:40.0. The occasional 1:39.6/7. But this colt just ran a blinder. 1:8.70 at 6f in his 2 year old season. I've never seen faster. Maybe a sign of things to come? I've certainly tightened up on breeding only the best of the best in this latest line of horses and it's early to say but I think they show some promise

Author:	blazingbailey [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
When you say best of the best, what exactly do you mean? Best in the Ck or in game results? Iv found some recent success by breeding with horses who have a top pedigree (from mares who have already produced top horses) who havent fulfilled their potential. I was dubious at first but I have probably knocked .3 off my 5f times and .5 off my 6f times.

Author:	akhc [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Congrats on your recent advances in your times. 1/2 sec is quite an achievement. I wish I could cut half a sec off my times . Always CK. The game races are too variable. Condition of the track and wind all play a part. It's too hard to compare which horses are faster even on the same course due to varying conditions. CK is a lot more constant. With going set to good you only have to worry about wind conditions and if you run enough races you can minimize the wind factor too. The question is how to test so you're finding the best of the best. Scatters posted a CK testing guide which is very good though complicated as he runs multiple copies of horses. I've got a different (simpler) system for testing but I suspect it's valid given that I see times falling through generations of breeding. It's interesting you mention breeding to horses with a top pedigree. A recurrent theme looking back at folk who have posted about breeding is the concept of the super horse (or maybe it's something I've misread) but it seems to be that there are certain horses (stallions) that improve your lines and it's a question about finding/breeding one of those and then just breeding the hell out of it. Whilst I'm not sure I believe that, there are certain horses that crop up more regularly in my lines i.e. inbred across generations. Lasla Laanr A (which I posted about above) is a good example. Whilst there are lots of horses that went into the mix to create my lines they might only have been bred once whereas Punkin was bred at least 6 times (and probably mroe) to various horses that resulted in Lasla Laanr A.

Author:	blazingbailey [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
akhc wrote: Congrats on your recent advances in your times. 1/2 sec is quite an achievement. I wish I could cut half a sec off my times . Always CK. The game races are too variable. Condition of the track and wind all play a part. It's too hard to compare which horses are faster even on the same course due to varying conditions. CK is a lot more constant. With going set to good you only have to worry about wind conditions and if you run enough races you can minimize the wind factor too. The question is how to test so you're finding the best of the best. Scatters posted a CK testing guide which is very good though complicated as he runs multiple copies of horses. I've got a different (simpler) system for testing but I suspect it's valid given that I see times falling through generations of breeding. It's interesting you mention breeding to horses with a top pedigree. A recurrent theme looking back at folk who have posted about breeding is the concept of the super horse (or maybe it's something I've misread) but it seems to be that there are certain horses (stallions) that improve your lines and it's a question about finding/breeding one of those and then just breeding the hell out of it. Whilst I'm not sure I believe that, there are certain horses that crop up more regularly in my lines i.e. inbred across generations. Lasla Laanr A (which I posted about above) is a good example. Whilst there are lots of horses that went into the mix to create my lines they might only have been bred once whereas Punkin was bred at least 6 times (and probably mroe) to various horses that resulted in Lasla Laanr A. Haha but you dont know the times I was starting with! It might be half a second off mine but that probably still leaves me a second off yours! Yeh I have normally been breeding based on CK times and sticking with the best of the best, but I was just wondering if there was something I was missing. I do think certain stallions can improve times quite significantly at least early on but I also think that having a pool of consistent broodmares is just as important, both for times and enjoyment. I get bored very quickly if I have to try and race 20+ 2yo's so I try to identify the weakest mares early on.

Author:	akhc [ Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
I don't know but if I had to guess I'd guess you're down at 58.0-58.2s for 5f and 110.7-110.8 for 6f? I certainly am not a second faster than that ! That would be down at 57s for 5f and under 1:10 for 6f which would be faster than the league standard for SO4. I don't think you're missing anything. The broad principles as described by others in the past apply. It's the application which differs and a pinch of luck after all most horses that are bred don't improve times. So the difference is in how efficient you are in minimizing time spent on finding those few horses that do improve your lines.

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Author:	akhc [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sprinters Savegame - Feel Free To Download and Upload
Been trying to find a good colt to upload. Finally bred one that I think will provide a reasonable start for experimenting with breeding. Save game here. Again default schedule with no addons http://www.sendspace.com/file/f5dgdy It's at the start of the season and has two un-named 2 year olds. They are bred from the two fillies in the earlier savegame I uploaded. The colt was bred from the better of the two fillies (stats wise) and it's detailed stats (I've named it in the game but it's un-named in the save file above) as follows And here's it's race record through half of the 3 year old season It's not too shabby in CK either 1:23.7 at 7f though I only ran a few to get a feel for how fast it can run 1:39.8 at 1m (again only ran a few) I don't think it will go much faster in CK but again it's not a million miles away from a decent time in CK at 7/8f. And it is well bred and has the potential to go on to breed some nice horses IMO (though I haven't bred it yet of course) but I would expect it to do well as a brood stallion.