Hi everyone,
Just wanted to take this opportunity to let you how much I am enjoying the League. The camaraderie of the group is great and all the work everyone puts into it is much appreciated, as is the help that everyone is so ready to give.

Speaking of which, my question...

...one thing I have learnt in the three weeks so far is that I have some good decent horses, but I don't have any great ones. I'm not getting beaten by a country mile each race, and I am competitive finishing usually half a dozen or lengths behind the winner (at least on flat), which is encouraging. But why so near and yet so far?

I put it down to two things - potential and cruising burst.

Of the yearlings I keep and trial my game save produces on average an absolute potential between 85% and 90%. Which is good...but not great. It means that my 2yo's and 3yo's do not max out at 100% and subsequently are found wanting in the final stages of a race. So it is no surprise on reflection my only winner to date is a 4yo who did max out at 100% (note to self I should have packed my stable with more 4yo's rather than 3yo's).

As for cruising burst the best I have found in 25+ seasons is a shade over 70%, not nearly good enough.

So I figure I need to improve my potential by a good 5% and cruising burst by almost 10%. The problem though is in the early seasons I didn't manage my save too well and now almost every top stallion in the game is either belonging to my stable or is one that I bred and sold, so there seems to be very little hope of improvement.

Which leads me to my question (finally)...do I?;
a) continue for another 10 seasons or so, retiring horses from the game instead of selling (it's not like I need the money), in the hope that some new game breds will emerge with the stats I'm looking for

or

b) start a new save in the hope of finding what I'm looking for (which I have actually started to do and after a couple of seasons have already found horses with 80% cruising burst)

I'm sure some of you have been at the same crossroads and I'd be interested to hear what you did and how it went.

Cheers,
Paul

Hi Paul

In another post, I think Vinnie mentions something similiar to what I am going to say.

My main flat save, 98 seasons, was started before I fully appreciated the full implications of Potential, Extra Speed & Cruising Burst. Although my flat horses are in the mix at the end of races, most have 97% potential as a 3yo but the cruising burst is only about 65% and extra speed is about 85%.

I did spend about 10 seasons buying and breeding every horse trying to find horses with better CB & ES. I was unable to find any horses that could improve on what I had.

I started a new save, it is only 24 seasons old but have horses with 80% CB and 95% ES. The horses from this save are still about seven lengths behind the horses from my old save. I reckon it will be about season 40 before I breed any horses from the new save that are competitive with horses from the old save.

For me, I was able to quickly progress through the first 15 seasons of the new save but now it takes more time to progress through the seasons as I find I have to take more care with breeding and trialing horses.

I don't have a lot of spare time at the minute for SO7, between race running, commentating on races and my main hobby, golf. So I am unlikely to see much progress soon.

It will be a couple of months before a new league starts, if you think you will have the time to breed at least 40 seasons before the new league season, start a new save. As long as all the correct building blocks are in your new save, it will be worth it in the long run.

CB & ES are important but the most important bar is potential. I look for 100% potential as a 4yo flat horse and 100% potential at 7yo or 8yo in a NH horse.

There are some hidden stats of some kind, don't know what they are. It doesn't matter how good all the other bars look, if a horse doesn't have those hidden stats, it is unlikely to be successfull in the league. All you need is one stallion with those hidden stats, then breed and breed with that stallion.

How do you know if a stallion has the hidden stats? It will be obvious when you trial your horses, the stallion will easily out perform any other horse you have.


Jim

Thanks Jim,

It sounds as though I am in a very similar place to what you were (although I am nowhere near 98 seasons).

Classic case in point, my best horse Fighting Edge was 85% potential at birth, getting to about 97% as a 3yo (which is where he is running at in the League). His cruising burst is a meagre 55% but his extra speed is a handy 90%.

I think whichever way I decide on going it's going to be a lot of late nights. I guess the key is to make a decision, stick to it and don't have any second thoughts - that being said I'll probably run two saves concurrently for the time being just to see how they pan out!

I could do with getting out on the golf course myself, it's been a number of years and my clubs are just gathering dust in the garage!

Paul

I'd say start a new game and buy everything, give uself around a week or so and when u get to season 10 make a decision. I say this because it will help if u play 8, u need to know what u looking for. If after 10 seasons u think its going to take to long to catch up go back to u game u playing.

As good as my US flat which accounts for most of my winners best potential I get at 3yo is 95%. Average is 92%. Full at 4yo is not common. My U.K. game is slightly better but still only 95% at 3yo, few around 97% but most top to 100% or 99% at 4



Plenty good enough, more than my highest cruise is my US flat game and in keeping with my U.K. one. I do have higher in breeding but in dud lines and as of yet I have not made it stick in a trial line.

Your missing ingredients are simple 1 - More time. 2 - More luck 3 - more juju.

Game does not always throw up surprises in the best horses, sometimes what you’re looking for lives in a donkey or dud. And keep selling to the game, but only the near misses at trial you want trial lines on your game lines. And the game does not create new horses as such it just recycles, so if it’s not in the game now it never will be.

And for context I have never seen cruise above 82% at any time or any game variance, I have heard thunderspark found 84%. If you’re waiting for 100% cruise you will be waiting a long time . 100% extra speed however very doable.

Josh

If you have joined discord most of my breeding methods and play style is posted there along with photos of my horses a large number of which are in this league team. What you’re describing I would call a nice looking game.

And for the flat extra speed is not to be overlooked, the difference between 90% and 95% is massive. Though French Fries G1 winner league type this year only has 85% but he gets away with it as he front runs. So run style comes into play too and is relative to the bars you have. Front runners can get away with less cruise too in my view.

Josh

I had a horse with nearly 90% cruise in SO6. This one was high in SO6 but i had higher, nothing like that in 7.

By the end of so6 I was basically producing 80% across the board. The 82% never really took.

And sorry Paul I misread your first sentence on potential. 85-90% at 3yo? 90% is passable but 95% needs to be target, the yardstick is when they are 2yo. If they start with 80% you have a chance at 100% by four. Anything less they won’t make it. Anything less than 80% at 2 I cut.

Look to the US stallions in the barn, for me potential is pretty easy to find in the US.

Those stats are more than enough to work with I think. My game has maxed out now because I am still playing the same game I started SO7 with at the very start. I've branched off, but it's ultimately the same game. I didn't want to start a new one as I was attached to this. Looking at this seasons results I probably should have. But it's taught me a lot for when I start again in SO8

I never bothered at all with looking for stats early on. It means in every one of my distances except for 1m2 an 1m4 I have maxed out at 97% potential. My cruising burst doesn't get above 60 in any distance, an that's even quite rare, mostly 55. The things keeping me competitive is my extra speed being almost exclusively 95%. Which is why most of mine finish so fast an so late. An the Juju as Josh would say. Which is just bred in over time. Technically I should start a US game now an hammer it for next season to get horses competitive on the foreign tracks. That would enhance my stable probably, but it could also just be a waste of time

I found when most of my horses were close, but not winning the big races, it changed because I maxed out the red speed bar. I may be wrong, but I'm sure this is the bar that stops your horse being slightly outpaced, an gives it the pace to find a good spot in the race. The acceleration red bar, linked with cruising burst re likely more comfortable running from the front

Could I get an invite to the discord Josh. Thanks


Thanks everyone for the comments it's good to know where I'm at in relation to the rest of you and it has given me some ideas to go away and work on. Must admit I am surprised that my cruising burst is comparable. Don't worry I'm not trying to get that to 100% I know that's not achievable. Best I've seen is 79% and I found that it really helps with your stayers. I have a number of 95% to 98% extra speed so that is not a worry, just have to try and integrate that into my good trial horses as mostly they seem to be duds when it comes to the CK.

Same with potential, I do have some that are low 90% at birth which I have kept a line of in my barn but they have largely been rubbish and out performed in the CK by lesser potential horses. I will continue to try and breed them into my good lines but it is a long process. I reckon over the past 10 seasons I have maybe had two horses that have emerged with 90% potential at birth and that trial okay - you'll hopefully see them in the league next season.

Just on a side note, I know it is a stat that doesn't really seem to do anything (at least not in my experience) and you rarely see anything other than 10%, but in the new save that I opened up there is a stallion with 95% battling qualities. I had never seen one that high before.

Have bumped the post here, I don’t run the channel.

Battling qualities is actually a decent difference maker in certain situations but it is notoriously hard to keep, so much so most don’t bother. I certainly don’t, I know John is trying to as we speak.

And if you have 79% cruise 98% speed and touch 90% potential at 2yo you’re more than set with bars to be highly competitive. You just need the magic juju. but with flat that’s just a question time.

FYI when I have found those Uber high pot horses that max 100% by 3yo, they have usually been specialists at 2yo or just no good.

The problem with battling qualities is no one can really say what it is, it probably makes up 1% of a horses ability . When u start a game u get really high ones but they tend to be duds at stud and in league trials. I probably kept some in my horses because one was a front runner and I probably bred to him more than I should. I'd say it was probably the 6th most important bar. I've never had a full 3yo in SO7.

If u had a choice of one bar at 95 and one at a hundred what would people pick between potential or speed. I would go with speed at 100 and 95 for potential. I've always loved the speed bar on the flat.

Good question!

I take it you mean as a 3yo. I'd go potential - if it is 100 at 3yo then likely it was between 90 and 95 at birth so I'd like that to be passed on in the breeding barn to most of its young