early september is the plan

Hardly helpful mate why not hold off the criticism and look at the schedule when it is finished
then put over you concerns in a orderly manner i am 100% sure Andy is open to suggestions on his sched
calling things crap is just totally immature and not needed
no one is saying they are taking over the sched and its my way or i'm not doing it as stated Andy is open to suggestions
and he is putting time into it and is looking at it in totally a different way that is has been done in the past
I for one am grateful for Andy and Gray for putting so much time into the scheds
just seems you are been over critical because someone is trying something different to you

as i have said 1000s of time the lge is not about 1 person its about everyone (the majority being happy)
everyone has a say no matter what
My opinion is let Andy finish his sched then everyone have a look and post there thoughts on it

Cutting the 2 mile plus races is really not a good idea. The whole idea of the league is too allow for a variety of different trainers. A lot of my stayers only ran a few times due to lack of races so cutting these even further would not be good. The distance spread was the main cause of small fields in staying races but this will be fixed next season There were not many issues with the previous schedule bar duplication of sprint races and too few long distance races to allow entry into the staying handicaps. The prerequisites for entering the staying races with regards distance spreads will fix some if the issues that occurred.

Also bear in mind that the league will never be an accurate reflection of real life. Most people want the big races included if this means an unbalanced race calender with fewer group 2's and 3's so be it.

Small fields in 0-80 handicaps are also not an issue as it gives new trainers a good chance of winning a race.

There is an extra week in the calender and this should help with adding races etc

What are your plans for distance spreads for the flat next season Leon? I really don't see why over 1m6f horses can't be allowed to +/- 3f.

I agree the league does cater to all trainers. However the question is do we cater for staying races at the expense of the shorter distances. Besides the cuts are not huge. We're talking a whole 4 races.

I suspect your lack of runs is due to the breakdown of races as much as the lack of races at this distance.

If we look at the 2m+ races, there were 44 races. Of these 22 were handicaps (including G1Hs) which your horses wouldn't have qualified for. 9 were maidens, 3 listed and 10 Group.

One issue was the distance spread at 2m+ as you've stated.

I have already mentioned the other issue I have with leaving the races as is. The game by virtue of the game start and default schedule encourages horses less than 2 miles. The horses you get given at the start are rarely stayers over 2 miles. Also there are less of these in the breeding barn. New trainers would have to go out of their way to breed these. Is it fair then that some trainers have an easier time winning these races due to the very small fields when there are many other trainers who just by playing the game will have horses that will prefer the shorter distances? And I'm talking handicaps here not top 10 trainers horses. I simply feel that we should have more handicaps at shorter distances as there are a greater number of trainers who will be entering these as opposed to the long distance stayers. However it wouldn't be difficult to change these shorter handicaps for longer ones if this is what folk what (even though it is inherently less fair IMO).

The other thing about having more G1s and less G2/3s is that you simply have more races for the top trainer to win. As I found out last season trying to win a G2/3 with a horse that has won a G1 is not easy. It would simply spread the winners out a little more which I think is a good thing. By all means if everyone wants all the G1s left in I'll be happy to oblige and take out the G2/3s instead as it's more races for me to win .

Anyway I'm working on this and it's open to critique.

the distance spread will be wider for horses running over 2 miles. I think its best you do the schedule and then we look at critique thereafter. I'm sure you will do a good job. I'm more concerned about all the race_codes being correct as this will impact on the running of the league. If you want to have statistics for amount of group 1's etc won by a trainer we might have to separate the race_codes. AT the moment the flat is running the band 10 -18 but we can change this to 1-18 for example if this allows the retrieval of data people want for stats for group 1's, 2's etc

If you can find grade 1 handicaps to add that will be good as it gives all trainers a good chance of winning a grade 1. More so than group 2's do

Some questions, Andy?

Have you counted the amount of 1m7+ horses properly? I dont think you have.

The 1m7 horses you listed. Are these the breeding indicators that trainers have listed? I think they probably are. (cue silly smiley)

Have you counted the amount of 1m6 horses which ran over 2m and/or even won over 2m? Some ran several times. Are they included in your figures?

You said you could only find ONE trainer, Leon, to have 4 2m+ horses. Well I did some homework as you asked and I can find three with 4, seven with 3 2m+ horses and also some stables swapped one 2m horse for another who had 2. I would also have had 4 if Id uploaded in the transfer window. For a man obsessed with numbers you dont seem very good with them?

Then there are the stables with one 2m+ horse. A lot of these trainers were first season trainers or those who uploaded small stables in the last season of SO4. What will happen if these trainers breed more stayers and upload 2-4 horses at 2m+ next season? There were several trainers who asked how to breed stayers with the intention of going away and doing just that. Then there were the trainers who put together a stable quickly. What happens if these also upload a full stable and explore other distances?

Now with 1m and 1m1 having the most horses in the league this season we would all expect those horses to have the most races based on your numbers? But they dont? I cant figure that one out?

In one of your later posts you say that 15f+ are only losing four races? My maths is good and I thought 46-37 was nine? Best I buy a calculator.

Next up you propose cutting maidens by eight races when every call has been for more?

There is also a demand for more G1 hcaps and you are cutting these as well?

By your stats how will 1m1+1m2 horses have the same amount of races as 1m3+1m4?

You also made a comment about too many group races compared to ratings of horses. So these will be slashed next season? To around 60%?

How many different trainers won a 1m7+ handicap?

Now you also say you will listen to what people want. Very few have commented, or even read this thread, yet Leon and I have said there should be more staying races and I cant find anyone apart from yourself who wants to cut them? So two people more, one person who doesn't have any stayers wants fewer? Add to that the thread asking about how to breed stayers and you might lean towards more trainers having more stayers next season?

To be honest we might as well just scrap the 2m+ races and just tell every trainer to upload six sprinters and six milers. Thats pretty balanced out of twenty.

The schedule will punish people for breeding stayers and in the long term discourage trainers from doing so.

And you still have to answer how many runs stayers will get? Thats a direct question and an intelligent man would give an intelligent answer. Though Im sure you'll baffle your audience with numbers and a shoddy equation.

Well I might be in a minority but stayers run less than Sprinters in real life because they have less races to run in so there should be fewer races for them, plus it's harder in this game to get good stayers than there is to get good sprinters. I think u should make sure that the 2+ h'caps are all 0-110 h'capps so most horse ( apart from the very Best) can run in them. If the 110 rated horses took part in them then the bottom rated horse's would be rated 78 and every/most stayer's would be within that range.

Look at last years Stayers H'caps

21.5 0-80
18 0-80
16 0-80
20 0-80
18 0-80
17 0-80
15.5 0-90
20 0-80

Horses last year that were rated between 90-110 were h'capped out of the H'caps . They just took a kicking in group races instead.

In real life the recovery time for a stayer is much more than a sprinter. In the league the recovery time is exactly the same for both horses, the next race.

I agree it is harder to find stayers, or so people think. But if you play the game and then breed any staying stallion with 1m4+ horses then that is where you start. And from there you should be able to get together a few homebred stallions which you can then put through most of your 1m4+ fillies and all of a sudden you have a load of stayers to play around with.

I dont mind helping people out with breeding stayers. I actually started the lines for Feat Ping with two 1m6 horses. He is very good at 2m4.

There were also a number of 0-110 handicaps at 2m+. Horses rated under 70 and even 60 need the lower band races.

Actually that was my Strong( only) part of my team, getting real long 2m2+ stayers is hard, it's real hit and miss after 2miles. I've got a horse/only horse that will stay 2 and a half miles and by chance I called it Royal Gait and like the real horse it stays longer than the mother in law.

I think the BigBoys/Stables will be in for a shock next season because I believe us littler trainers will be a lot better and the gap between the best and the also rans will be a lot smaller.

Can I ask you please to be civil and stop with the personal attacks? They really don't help. I accept you are trying to improve the schedule but the personal attacks are really quite childish. Please note I am trying to answer your questions without any attacks Matt.

Yes it's what trainers upload as the horses best distance which surely they would know.

Did you bother to count how many trainers and stables had 4 or more sprinters? It looks like you're only using numbers to further your claims. I accept my mistake that there are more trainers with 4+ 2m horses.. 3 if I have counted right which I think I have. But you're evading the issue of trainers who have lots more sprinters I think. As for breeding stayers, as I've stated earlier, the game default schedule and breeding barn make it easier for new trainers to breed horses less than 1m6f or do you disagree with that? Look at the number of 5/6f horses cf 2m+ horses. There are 3x more. Do they not matter?

I'm planning on 15 G1 handicaps for the final week. I think there are plenty of big handicaps for trainers to win and I'm planning on increasing that number. I'd rather have the schedule reflect real life races if possible. And aside from Australia no one else runs G1 handicaps on the flat.

As for number of races at 1m1/1m2 etc please just wait for the schedule. I am not fixing the numbers above in stone. They will be tweaked based on last season's schedule.

I'm not planning on slashing the group races to 60%. There were 128 group races last season. I'm counting on 120 instead trying to reconfigure the group races so they are less group 1 heavy. In reality as I'm working on things I'm cutting some G1s and increasing G2/3s but there will still probably be slightly more G1s but not as many as before. I'm trying to save most of the increase in races from 354 to 390 for the handicap races if possible. As I've stated before of the 768 horses uploaded last season only 100 or so were rated over 110. The bottom line is that you seem to be missing is most of the increase in races is for the handicaps and if there are any cuts at 2m+ these races will be handicaps at shorter distances but we'll see how the final figures pan out.

As for the last bit of your post, Ghost has stated his preference which is in line with mine. Let's just wait and see when the schedule comes out and folk can comment? There's no point my spending time discussing ifs/buts when the schedule isn't out.

PS Matt. If you can't be civil then I simply will ignore your posts from now on. Cheers for your future consideration.

I'm counting on it. If you read my posts you will never find me supporting one person dominating. The league needs competition at all levels to make it fun and to attract more people. Domination is a bad thing and that is one reason I have gone out of my way to try and help people find better horses.

Personal attacks? They are facts which you asked for? I did some homework which you asked me to do?

Anyway you avoided all my points pretty well. I notice your answer to Leon was very different to my initial questions.

I'll let you get on with it.

I think we all got to give a bit, we all got our favourite Distances/Countries. I'd like more US races in it but i'm not going to get it. I'd love some warm up races to the Kentucky Derby but it's not going to be.

If u Looking for G1 H'caps then The US of A is the country u should be looking for because most of it's biggest races are H'caps. Though most are limited h'caps.

U got races like the the santa anita H'cap, one of the biggest races in the US.

I think more american races could be a good idea and also some of the big handicaps like the Santa Anita should be included. Actually the big US handicaps are a great idea.