the 2 mile plus races were unbalanced. Too many low grade handicaps and not any many maidens to qualify for these races as a result the races had small fields. The larger distance spread should take care of it. But my stayers hardly had races to run in last season as it was. Some had 3 or 4 starts the whole season. So if the races are cut it doesn't make any sense for me to have a flat string. Having horses run only 3 or 4 times the whole season doesn't make it worth the effort. I doubt there are many sprint /milers from last season who only ran 3 times

I care mainly about the 2 mile plus races so obviously I am not happy with the situation but as I have said before lets see what Andy comes up with.

It is not a huge overreaction to nothing, the league is going in the wrong direction. Jamie explains everything quite well.

You say a lot of 2m+ had 3-6 runners. Of the eight 2m handicaps only two had six runners or less. Thats 25% And as pointed out above this may have been down to the handicap brackets in later weeks as a 0-80 in week5 attracted thirteen runners, yet the same race in week11 only had three. The small turnouts were in the latter parts of the season. Over 2m2 there were six handicaps. Two of these had five runners. Thats 33.3%. Over 2m4 was where the problems with small fields was. As pointed out quite a few times this was mainly due to a lack of 2m4 maidens at the start of the season which made it hard for trainers to get horses eligible for those races and impossible over 2m5+. Of the eight handicaps, five,62.5%, were six runners or less with a few only having three runners. This must be addressed but would it not be better to find a solution or try to find a way of increasing runners rather than just cutting the races? Or do we just scrap them without even trying? The reasons for small fields have been pointed out. We have suggested a solution.

I dont think 25% and 33% is a lot. 62.5% is but there maybe a solution to this. If it didn't work then we would have no argument. But to scrap them without trying proves nothing.

I could also see Jamie being president if he's going to bother entering the league this season.

First 4 weeks

Maidens
3 x 2m
3 x 2m2
1 x 2m4

Group/Listed - Open to maidens
2 x 2m
1 x 2m4

So with the distance spread of 2 furlongs either side, there was 5 races to qualify for 2m4, 10 races to qualify for 2m2, 8 races to qualify for 2m, plus an additional 4 1m6 races open to maidens that would qualify for 2m so really 12 all in.

There was more than enough races to qualify 6 stayers, 2 for each distance, the simple fact is there was just not enough stayers uploaded, with all these chances in the first 4 weeks there is absolutely no excuses for the small fields.

There wasn't a problem with the 2m races so no idea why you quote those.

How many races were there which you could qualify for a 2m5 race, where most of the problems were? Also poor horses running in Group races aren't going to qualify for races over those distances as their finishing position will be too low. So again pointless argument.

So as previously stated there were not enough maidens over 2m4. One of the 2m2 races needs to be replaced by a 2m4. That's the suggestion by those who want to keep the staying races. Its not rocket science yet you seem to make it hard work.

And once again the small fields were over 2m5 where there was only one race to qualify from!

"Also poor horses running in Group races aren't going to qualify for races over those distances"

I wasnt aware of that rule

It was the same for every distance, if you wanted to get 6 horses qualified between a 4 furlong spread then you have to bite the bullet and use listed/group races, there was literally hundreds of horses in group races last season who shouldnt have been in them, so I cant see that being the problem.

I doesnt get any clearer than what I just showed, it was extremely easy to get 6 stayers qualified for their respective distances, you are just flogging a dead horse now.

Is the rules going to change for the stayers( that's part of the problem) because my best stayer for next season is my best horses from 2miles to 2 and a half. I'd like to run him over all those distance's.

I think the 2 mile distance was well balanced last season because a horses I put in when the transfer window opened ran 5 times in seven weeks.

So you aren't aware of a horse's distance spread being applied to its best run? Jesus you were the handicapper.


Please explain to me how it was extremely easy to get qualified for a 2m5 handicap. Is this why these races were opened up for manual entries because there were too many horses eligible? That makes sense.

the problem was the one maiden over 2m4 which meant that any horse whose best run was not in that race could not run in any of the 2m5 races. I had 4 stayers, 2 of which ran hardly any races. I also had 2 1m6 horses but had to run them in 12f races as there were hardly any 1m6 races

I found I had no races to enter them in towards the end of the season.

Its quite hard to see the issues if you don't have many stayers uploaded yourself. But as stated already it was very easy to find races for 5/6 f horses and milers.

Anything 1m6 and over there just weren't races for my horses. I had to run horses over shorter to give my horses runs. In the NH league it was easy to find races for all my horses. Ideally the flat should be similar. At the moment it is very easy to run a sprinter 12 times but it is impossible to run a 2 mile horse 12 times, which is fine but making this a wider gap by removing staying races when there should in fact be more is not good in my opinion as we should be encouraging diversity not removing it

Horses who ran over 2m2 should have been able to run at 2m5, its a bit of a joke distance and thats a problem with the rules, not the schedule.

The best run rule was effectively made redundant by the 1 run for handicap mark rule, and if the horse is running in a listed or group race at its correct distance then its running to its best level, its not going to run to a higher level in a lesser race I dont recall any horse being knocked back for being too bad in a group race do you?

The 2 mile field sizes are also being propped up by 1m4 and 1m6 horses who ran in 1m6 maidens.

So now the problem is not the lack of opportunities to qualify, but the lack of races once qualified?

Make up your minds lads.

Er yes we have also said its a problem with the rules. But it wouldn't hurt to swap one 2m2 maiden for one over 2m4. So well done for sort of agreeing with our points as to why there was a shortage of horses qualified for those races. As the 2m5 races take place in real life they are in the schedule. The 2m5 race at the end of the season, after the other 2m4 maidenat halfway, attracted a decent field. You'll catch on in the end, Joe.


Are you trying to say that an 80 horse running in a group race will run better over its correct distance of say 2m, than it would in a poor 2m2 maiden? I've heard it all now.

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Yes and those rules have been changed for next season. If you look at the staying log and click on the top stayers and compare the amount of runs they had to the top sprinters you will see that there were not enough races for them. So adding to the sprint races while removing staying races doesn't make sense. It was probably the reason why less stayers were uploaded as well, as there just weren't enough races for them

If the runs were equal for both groups then this would be fine but they not. Stayers just had fewer races to compete in.

2m5 may be joke distance to you but some of us like those races. I find sprints boring, and the league should cater to everyone

Another problem I think might happen is in 4+ age races. Is anyone going to have 4 and older races horse's on the flat because all mine will be 3 year old's since the game got changed by Mark.

I think any horse that run's in a maiden over 2 miles should be allowed into all 2 miles plus races.

I have stated on many occasions that there were not enough staying races, and have not waived from this. Whether that be qualifying or end of season

My older horses are still better than my 3 year olds since the change. Might be to do with my NH game