I have to say I agree with Matt.

If you don't have a group horse or a low grade handicapper it is very hard to find races where you have a realistic chance of winning or placing. This week is a good example 3 handicaps within 4 furlongs of each other all with fairly similar conditions. I think that realism of weeks needs to be sacrificed to a certain extent to make a schedule that flows, I have found this one quite hard to get on with and I only have a few horses. I think the same for the NH schedule, all the races seem to be at the same distance each week. There isn't much variety, again making it hard to place horses.

Next season we need to have a set amount of races at each distance and grade.

For example; 4 x 0-80 5f, 3 x 0-90 5f and 3-4 x 0-110 5f. That should give all 5f handicappers approx 6-7 opportunities to run AFTER the maidens. Those rated above 90 can be aimed at the 3-5 listed races over the season or drop down the weights if not good enough You can have a 0-80 and 0-110 in the same week but the 0-90's would be in different weeks. There is a real lack of handicaps at certain distances. My point about three runs before the G1 hcaps was valid. I didn't have the time to edit it all before the start. There is also way, way too many G1's.

Schedule's are very hard to build but I think there are certain rules you need to follow when making one. And again do NOT use the SO5 schedule as a guide.

I also kind agree with Matt we need more races at Handicap Level than at Group Level and I think there is also to many Group 1 races but this Week Ascot Like Cheltenham in the Nh all races should be in the programme I thought myself the Nh Schedule was Fine (Yes I Know I would say that I did it ) but we can visit the flat again and have less Foreign group races like the Underwood Stakes but keep the final week group Handicaps.

Gray

P.S I also think to many trainers are putting horses not good enough in group Races.

Got to agree with u, the jumps looks fine to me. Good Job.

I think instead off revamping the flat schedule I think u just have to add two or three races to each week.

It will be the last season of so5 so why not go out with a bang.

If u add three extra races a week u get a extra 36 races in a season.

U would get 6 sprint races, 6 mile races, 6 mile quarter, 6 mile half, 6 two miles and 6 two and a half. Make them all 0-100 3+ and there's plenty of races for all.

I wish it was that simple. There is a real lack of balance, certain races have four to five times as many races as others. Certain distances hardly have any handicaps at all yet others have eight or nine over the season. The balance needs addressing as do the clashes. How many 9-10f G1's were there last week?

I do not think ther NH schedule is fine, I could pick holes in it almost every week.

Take this week (NH wk6), there are 7 open, 3m - 3.3m chase races while there are is only 1 hurdles race over 2.4m which is a h/cap race and two G1 hurdles races over 2m and 2.1m

Don't get me wrong, I think that those who run the races do a fine job and maybe its just the type\grade of horses I have in my stable that makes me question the schedule.

I do agree with earlier posts that the schedule should be designed to flow as a "game" and not reflect real life race schedules or races.




Could this be because people want to race their horses and there are no viable alternatives to G1 races in the schedule.

I was going to post exactly what you posted, that is my point made perfectly. It was the same last week, and the week before. Too many similar races over the same distances. I can't enter a lot of my horses because either their distance isn't covered, or hasn't been covered at an appropriate grade. I appreciate SimpleMinds has worked hard on this, but the emphasis is on feature races and not on a variety of distances and classes to cater for all.

I've got to admit I disagree, it should represent a real life schedule. I've got a full jumps team and yet im only 13 in the amount of runners I've had. I'm not sure how many times people think the horses should run.
This week it's the best chaser's turn and next week it's the best hurdlers turn. I still think the jump schedules fine( my personal option). U will never get a schedule that's everyone is happy with.

My seven h'cappers in my team have run.

Brownhill lass 3
Clever Folly 4
French Ballerina 4
Kumbi 3
Lady Rosanna 4
Only Royale 4
Pearlyman 4

Perhaps I've been lucky, but that seems fine to me.

I take your points on board and can see what you both are saying the schedule is designed to follow the actual real life Racing Calendar trainers wanted to get away from made up races and want to follow real races from start to finish.

We can always tinker a bit this schedule was designed around novices both Hurdles/Chases to give them at least 1 race week to enter it was never designed for a trainers horses to run 13 races in a season.

Novice Hurdles was designed From Week 2 onwards to have at least

1x 2m NHF Race
1x 2m Novice Hurdle
1x 2m 4F Novice Hurdle
1x 3m Novice Hurdle now not all will be exact distances stated as 2m 1f or 2m 7f etc.
1x 2m Juvenile Hurdle

There should be at least 4 x Novice Chases a week ranging from 2m to over 3miles

I can see there is only 1 2m 4f which is a handicap hurdle this week but that will happen you cant put every distance for every grade in every week I am sure there might be some faults and at the end of the current season these can be discussed the only Made up race in the Schedule is the Paul Moores Series and trainers who have played since before I started in the online League want to keep these races in and adds some fun for the stayers.

I think that you can cater for almost every distance and grade of horse most weeks.

Take your example of 2m horses above. Two races each week for NHF and Juvenile, that leaves 29 races to play with.

At 2m we have novice and open, hurdle and fences, and for each you need a handicap and a group race. That adds up to 8 races.

Do the same for 2.4m and 3m and that is another 16 races, making a total of 26 races.

That leaves 5 races for longer distances like moores millions, special races like grand national etc..

You can have both. But there has to be a balance between low grade handicaps and G1's in both codes, ideally any schedule will be chronological and also it is a good idea to avoid clashes of having the same or very similar races in the same week.

Schedules are a lot of hard work BUT the easiest and best way to make one, in my opinion, is to start from scratch. I dont think this happened with the flat or NH schedule? I will say it again you must also AVOID the SO5 schedule as a guide as it is has a lot of mistakes in it. I think you used this Gray? But there are a lot of resources out there to help you build a schedule. Wikipedia, horseracebase and visiting each racecourses website to see what they consider their showcase races are a few. Thats how I found the Carlisle Bell and Cumberland Plate. There were also some races from Brighton last season which aren't in this one? This applies to the jumps as well.

Now the high class stuff is easy as we all know the top races. The low grade stuff and even some listed or group races do need to be made up to help balance the schedule. In real life there aren't any 2m4f prep races for the Ascot Gold Cup but I think we should have a listed or group race over 2m2 or 2m4 at a galloping track in say week 4. The Chester Cup is awful as a prep race. The low grade stuff is actually hard to find but it must be in any schedule or the trainers with lesser horses have no races. So these races will largely be made up, though if people know of a 0-80 1m2 handicap from a gaff track in any month then let us know!

As you build the schedule it is a good idea to tally the races up as you go. So when you add a 0-90 1m6 handicap in week 7 you mark it down on your spreadsheet or tally chart. Then as you go those who know how to use excel, not me, can formulate tables and then you can see where you are maybe heavy or light on races. There is a lack of 1m2 handicaps so far this season but already about twenty G1's.

For me the rules are:
Start from scratch
Tally the races up as you go.
Avoid clashes, way too many 9-10 G1's on the flat last week.
Keep the big meetings, Ascot, Cheltenham, Aintree, and in those weeks there wont be many races for the smaller trainers but they can still enter the 0-110 on the flat and whatever it is in the NH league. But then they must have races either side of those weeks for their horses.

Am I being too critical? Im actually trying to point out how hard it is to build and whatever you do some people will still not be happy. Just my thoughts, im not necessarily right.

I think it's to simplistic to look at it like that, there's a world of difference between 2 and two and a half mile races. What about the horses in between distances. How can u have 2 nhf flat races and two juvenile races over two miles and yet there are only 5 races over three miles plus. There are a lot more staying horse's than nhf horse's or juveniles.

The only think need to change is the smaller races need to lower the h'cap's to perhaps 0-100 or 0-110, so the lesser horse's can win.

I completely agree with this. Both schedules seem to be hinged around the feature meetings each week. I wasn't aware that people wanted to get away from made up races. Seeing as the equivalent of those made up races in real life (the class 4-7 handicap and selling races) are what the majority of everyday racing consists of I think they are more vital to the schedules than the group races. That is if you're talking about having a league where every single trainer can feel they has a chance of winning at least one race, no matter how bad their horses are. If however, you're talking about having an elitist league where the schedule and the competition revolves around group races and a few trainers able to win them then I think the current schedule would work. As Keith says everyone knows when the major races are, it is the small ones that everyone can aim at that need to be sorted out.

I think it would be better to have 5 or so maidens and minor handicaps (all together not five of each) over a variety of distances each week (barring weeks where there is a major festival) and then build the feature races around this model. Rather than having the feature races making up the bulk of the schedule and then having odd low class races thrown in if there's a gap.

I agree with you here. But there still aren't really enough races for horse who want in between distances who aren't graded horses. Add in the fact that the CK handicapping system is overly harsh (particularly if you have a stayer) and you quickly run out of races to enter.